Weapon Reverts Megathread

[Buchou]

What's the consensus on keeping vanilla airblast over the old airblast (which would knock you up in the air and was a big part of the Combo Pyro playstyle)? Personally I think it should be reverted to make the Reserve Shooter and even the Flare Gun more viable, but I play a lot of Pyro so I could be biased.

[random]

What's the consensus on keeping vanilla airblast over the old airblast (which would knock you up in the air and was a big part of the Combo Pyro playstyle)? Personally I think it should be reverted to make the Reserve Shooter and even the Flare Gun more viable, but I play a lot of Pyro so I could be biased.

From the last time we discussed this the two issues are that the revert we have isn't accurate, and that the newer airblast is more fun at least from what other pyro mains have told me. The old airblast is I guess what you could classify as a noob combo, good for one thing only and nothing else while the newer airblast has more room for skill expression by aiming different ways to get different effects. Other pyro players who prefer new airblast can chip in but I think that's what it boils down to

[Appolz (with a z)]

I had only just started learning how to reflect when they changed airblast, the old one let you pop people into the air for free reserve shooter/axtinguisher combos and the bigger square shaped hitbox let you catch rockets and pipes that would have missed you and redirect them in some goofy ah directions if you knew what you were doing. My favorite thing was grabbing half the enemy team and just carrying them all the way to the cliff on upward and dropping them off the side of the mountain. New airblast has a more cone shaped hitbox and applies force based on your enemy's velocity and lets you fling people across the room which is much better for denying ubers and general crowd control use. When we use modern airblast I miss being able to hold people in place while I shotgun them to death and when we use reverted airblast I miss being able to go medic bowling so it's a glass half empty/half full situation either way.

[Buchou]

From the last time we discussed this the two issues are that the revert we have isn't accurate, and that the newer airblast is more fun ...

So it'd be a different story if the plugin was more accurate?
And fair enough with the noob combo argument. I don't main pyro anymore so I can't speak to which airblast is better, really.

[random]

From the last time we discussed this the two issues are that the revert we have isn't accurate, and that the newer airblast is more fun ...

So it'd be a different story if the plugin was more accurate?
And fair enough with the noob combo argument. I don't main pyro anymore so I can't speak to which airblast is better, really.

I don't think it would be much of a different story. People preferring the new one ends up being the more deciding factor. Though I will say in my biased opinion, old airblast (or the one we have in the plugin) + reserve shooter hard counters scout and is quite unfun to play against

[Appolz (with a z)]

...quite unfun to play against

This much is at least historically accurate. I ran Degreaser/Stock/Powerjack just to have afterburn immunity and out-gun combo pyros.
I never actually used the reserve shooter until Castaway because in ancient times I was honor-bound by autism to git gud.

[the_massive]

• Pretty boy's pocket pistol reverted to pre-blue moon, which is the modern one but instead of +3 health per hit, it's +7. I'm interested if this makes it good enough to surpass the 15 hp pocket pistol or not

The JI pbpp is definitely way better and more fun than the previous revert, if for no other reason than the increased fire rate, it takes just 2 hits when you're not at max hp to give you the same bonus as the previous revert.

I'm also advocating for the dead ringer to have its tough break stats, which is the same as the post JI version except with ammo recharge. It's much better and way more fun than the revert currently used in castaway, trading 15% damage resistance and a shorter resistance duration for a speed boost and limited afterburn immunity. It allowed for a very aggressive spy playstyle and more options like using the speed boost to get stabs that'd otherwise be unavailable.

[Mr_Lean69420]

Suggestion: Remove the Sandvich revert that allows you to heal 150 health by throwing it on the ground. In my opinion, this is not how the sandvich was intended to be used.

[Suspicious Carl]

Suggestion: Remove the Sandvich revert that allows you to heal 150 health by throwing it on the ground. In my opinion, this is not how the sandvich was intended to be used.

sandvich was never meant to be thrown to anyone, it didnt do that on release, and the update that let you throw it to other people for the first time was the update that let you throw it to yourself for the first time

i still miss the first sandvich we used, but it's 4:30am and thats an essay for another day

[Mr_Lean69420]

Suggestion: Remove the Sandvich revert that allows you to heal 150 health by throwing it on the ground. In my opinion, this is not how the sandvich was intended to be used.

sandvich was never meant to be thrown to anyone, it didnt do that on release, and the update that let you throw it to other people for the first time was the update that let you throw it to yourself for the first time

i still miss the first sandvich we used, but it's 4:30am and thats an essay for another day

Release sandvich also let you eat infinitely without a cooldown.


(imagine living in america)

[the_massive]

Suggestion: Remove the Sandvich revert that allows you to heal 150 health by throwing it on the ground. In my opinion, this is not how the sandvich was intended to be used.

Its really pointless to argue using developer intent, a lot of fun mechanics that add depth to the game are completely unintended. The market gardener was only intended to crit while rocket jumping, but with bhops you can preserve your rocket jumping state and crit after landing. The force a nature's jump was also intended to just be a 3rd jump, but if you know anything about that weapon youll know you're more mobile than a soldier and can jump almost as high as one from the ground. Trickstabs also fall under the branch of unintended game mechanics. stuff like this should only be tweaked or removed if they're actually gamebreaking, or completely overpowered, which, a heavy throwing himself a medium health pack can hardly be classed as.

[Pig]

If I may put my two cents in about the pbpp debate:

It seems like a big problem is that we are comparing two fundamentally different weapons. It’s like comparing the release panic attack, and the vanilla version. I think both sides of the pistol debate make good points because both versions are genuinely viable (and stack up well against stock and milk). The controversy is because they are fundamentally different weapons that have different utilities and serve different roles.

If we have to choose one, we should choose the version that offers the most unique attributes, rather than do the same thing as a different weapon. (So in this case, fall damage negation and base HP). There’s nothing wrong with having a pistol that copies the milk, but it’s not worth sacrificing a totally unique weapon.

This is a case where I wish we could have both. It may be controversial, but I wouldn’t consider it a “custom weapon mod”. It would just be including both historic versions of a weapon. (Maybe I’d support this for the panic attack and back burner as well)

[Yusuke_Akechi]

The Enforcer should be reverted to launch (+20% damage done disguised or undisguised 0.5 sec increase in time taken to cloak). It was just a better weapon as opposed to a year later which is the version that is used in this server.

[Suspicious Carl]

The Enforcer should be reverted to launch (+20% damage done disguised or undisguised 0.5 sec increase in time taken to cloak). It was just a better weapon as opposed to a year later which is the version that is used in this server.

That would be cool but doesn't that make it a straight upgrade with the dead ringer then
It would revive dr enforcicle

[Yusuke_Akechi]

The Enforcer should be reverted to launch (+20% damage done disguised or undisguised 0.5 sec increase in time taken to cloak). It was just a better weapon as opposed to a year later which is the version that is used in this server.

That would be cool but doesn't that make it a straight upgrade with the dead ringer then
It would revive dr enforcicle

Yeah, but there are weapons like the liberty launcher that gives a minor downside (1 less rocket) and a severe upside (more projectile speed with same damage). It wouldn't be that unfair, especially compared to the often-criticized sandman cleaver combo.

[the_massive]

Yeah, but there are weapons like the liberty launcher that gives a minor downside (1 less rocket) and a severe upside (more projectile speed with same damage). It wouldn't be that unfair, especially compared to the often-criticized sandman cleaver combo.

The philosophy with most of the reverts seem to be going after "whatever the most fun/powerful version of the weapon is" so i think the op enforcer would fit. Also losing one rocket is a big downside i dont know what you mean with that, you spend more time reloading in exchange for slightly easier shots i guess? i dont think aiming as soldier is hard to begin with. I'm also in a minority who prefers the new liberty launcher with 5 rockets, with gunboats its like playing trolldier except you still have a rocket launcher if you miss a garden, since jumps do around 11 damage instead of the usual 18.

[Suspicious Carl]

Well shit if everyone else is down for it i guess i am, letranger would still be a useful tool, ambassador is fun no matter what combo you use, and if your not using the dead ringer you might want to go for stock revolver or letranger, maybe even diamondback

This is a persuader type situation, the one we have now is by no means bad but hey im cool with making it just a little better

[the_massive]

Well shit if everyone else is down for it i guess i am...

I wouldn't say im down for it, but the vision of the server is all about what the best versions were (except for broken shit like when the gru/dalokohs bar could give heavy infinite hp). Theres a lotta things id personally change, like reverting flamethrower mechanics to either pre jungle inferno, or post blue moon where they fixed the insane AOE dps pyro could do, my biggest reason being pyro went from countering anything but heavy in close range to genociding.

[Appolz (with a z)]

The Enforcer should be reverted to launch (+20% damage done disguised or undisguised 0.5 sec increase in time taken to cloak). It was just a better weapon as opposed to a year later which is the version that is used in this server.

That would be cool but doesn't that make it a straight upgrade with the dead ringer then
It would revive dr enforcicle

I've only recently started playing gunspy and wait that was a thing? I've been running that shit anyway, I don't know if it needs to be better.

[random]

Pocket pistol is back to the 15 health version

[DelabLeFou]

I would say the +7 HP hit PBPP is better HOWEVER, I still think the +15 HP should be the one we keep because it's far more unique. The mad milk already exist for health on hit

[the_massive]

Pocket pistol is back to the 15 health version

Damn, much preferred the other version, much higher DPS and health on hit, its like the winger if the winger was good. the fire rate penalty on the +15hp version is too harsh for me

[Buchou]

Damn, much preferred the other version, much higher DPS and health on hit, its like the winger if the winger was good. the fire rate penalty on the +15hp version is too harsh for me

Because you're trading the potency of your secondary for 15 extra health, on Scout no less. Plus no fall damage. It's a fair downside.

[the_massive]

Because you're trading the potency of your secondary for 15 extra health, on Scout no less. Plus no fall damage. It's a fair downside.

the upsides just aren't worth it for me, 15 extra health as a passive is nice, but no fall damage? since when do scouts have to worry about fall damage, it only makes sense when you consider it was added in a set with the first bfbb, where any jump will remove your speed boost entirely. Kneecapping the secondary on scout just isn't worth it for the extra hp, as I'm more likely to die, or at least miss out on kills because i lack the extra firepower. the fire rate debuff is such that you're better off reloading instead of swapping to the pistol.

[the_massive]

The backburner's +10% damage revert is actually inaccurate, the damage bonus was never removed, the pyromania update just applied that bonus to all other flamethrowers. that is to say it never actually behaved like it does on castaway.

[random]

The backburner's +10% damage revert is actually inaccurate, the damage bonus was never removed, the pyromania update just applied that bonus to all other flamethrowers. that is to say it never actually behaved like it does on castaway.

That just means prior to pyromania it had a 10% boost and then come pyromania it was removed and all base flame damage was increased. But prior to that it had 10% to distinguish itself which would make it a valid statline. It's a similar situation to swap speed, gun mettle universally increased switch speed by 33% but our degreaser/reserve shooter still have the same swap speed % because the idea is that it's a bonus relative to other weapons, even if it's higher than it was in the past

[the_massive]

That just means prior to pyromania it had a 10% boost and then come pyromania it was removed and all base flame damage was increased. But prior to that it had 10% to distinguish itself which would make it a valid statline. It's a similar situation to swap speed, gun mettle universally increased switch speed by 33% but our degreaser/reserve shooter still have the same swap speed % because the idea is that it's a bonus relative to other weapons, even if it's higher than it was in the past

So its there to fit the spirit of the old stats rather than completely accurate to how they performed. Also tough break increased the swap speed by 25% but thats splitting hairs. Please dont do this, but have you thought about reverting the backburner to how it was on launch? with +10% damage, +75 hp and no airblast?

[random]

That just means prior to pyromania it had a 10% boost and then come pyromania it was removed and all base flame damage was increased. But prior to that it had 10% to distinguish itself which would make it a valid statline. It's a similar situation to swap speed, gun mettle universally increased switch speed by 33% but our degreaser/reserve shooter still have the same swap speed % because the idea is that it's a bonus relative to other weapons, even if it's higher than it was in the past

So its there to fit the spirit of the old stats rather than completely accurate to how they performed. Also tough break increased the swap speed by 25% but thats splitting hairs. Please dont do this, but have you thought about reverting the backburner to how it was on launch? with +10% damage, +75 hp and no airblast?

I dislike reverting weapons to periods that were too short because then they don't feel like real versions to me. We avoid doing this as much as possible. For example a weapon that was overpowered and quickly nerfed after in my eyes does not count as a valid version, being around for a few months means it was stable enough to not break the game. Anything less seems like a hotfix that resulted from Valve considering a weapon overtuned. Also, the release version was +50hp and no airblast, and it existed for only 10 days before the health bonus was removed.

Here's a video a day after it released showcasing this.

[the_massive]

I dislike reverting weapons to periods that were too short because then they don't feel like real versions to me. We avoid doing this as much as possible. For example...

Huh, i was always under the impression that the old backburner version was there for like a year, never knew that. Thats also a fair way to treat the reverts, since the "best" version of the dead ringer was the one on release that didn't reduce your cloak meter at all on feign/decloak, so you could just spam right click and tank tons of damage, but they fixed that really quickly too. Also stuff like the 200ms delay between scoping in and being able to headshot would be weird to revert.

[Suspicious Carl]

So its there to fit the spirit of the old stats rather than completely accurate to how they performed. Also tough break increased the swap speed by 25% but thats splitting hairs. Please dont do this, but have you thought about reverting the backburner to how it was on launch? with +10% damage, +75 hp and no airblast?

I dislike reverting weapons to periods that were too short because then they don't feel like real versions to me. We avoid doing this as much as possible. For example a weapon that was overpowered and quickly nerfed after in my eyes does not count as a valid version, being around for a few months means it was stable enough to not break the game. Anything less seems like a hotfix that resulted from Valve considering a weapon overtuned. Also, the release version was +50hp and no airblast, and it existed for only 10 days before the health bonus was removed.

Here's a video a day after it released showcasing this.

the wiki says it was a month is that wrong