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Re: Weapon Reverts Megathread

Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2026 5:00 am
by the_massive
protons wrote: Mon Feb 23, 2026 11:44 pm

i am a spy main who used the dead ringer from 2009-2015, and ...

The speed boost isnt just good for flashy trickstabs (which are extremely fun), the main benefit is being able to egress and run to health and ammo packs faster than anyone else can take them or check them, and with afterburn immunity you wont be painted out for the enemy by a pyro. I can understand tanking a full sticky trap out of spawn as an advantage, but spies again?? i cant understand the backstab invulnerablity being a real advantage, I rarely get randomly backstabbed as spy, and i dont get into trickstab battles unless im goofing, because they take a while and can be decided by ping, I just use the gun. As for crits the tough break dead ringer makes every attack do 1/4 its normal damage, you can survive a fully charged headshot just fine, or a crit direct hit to the face just fine.

Also i remember the winger's dead ringer sfm, i think he based that on the gun mettle version which was much worse.

chief wrote: Tue Feb 24, 2026 12:27 am

Generally speaking, castaway players are pretty much ...

I can speak for myself that ive killed 2 spies through the current dead ringer revert's feign, mostly because they've been taking predictable paths and I can invision him walking around at spy speed. I think the speed boost is really being underrated here, with the speed boost you will be out of an area full of damage fast enough to stay safe, and "crushing spies through resistance", the difference between the TB and JI DR (assuming full health, the differences are a lot lower if the spy is already damaged) is 500hp vs 1250hp, its still an unreasonable amount of health to leverage, and with the speed boost youd have to walk straight into spam to consistently die with that feign.

Something i think isnt being considered is how the tough break ringer drains cloak, the cloak is drained upon feign instead of upon decloak, which allows a spy to recharge the dead ringer while theyre still protected, and decloak with almost a full charge. This is actually a pretty big advantage because the resistance for all dead ringers doesnt last forever, if im remembering correctly both feign resistances last 5 seconds. a dead ringer spy using the tough break is able to have a feign ready right after decloaking instead of the usual period of vulnerability dead ringer spies are expected to have after decloaking.


Re: Weapon Reverts Megathread

Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2026 8:18 am
by huutti
the_massive wrote: Tue Feb 24, 2026 5:00 am

Something i think isnt being considered is how the tough break ringer drains cloak, the cloak is drained upon feign instead of upon decloak, which allows a spy to recharge the dead ringer while theyre still protected, and decloak with almost a full charge. This is actually a pretty big advantage because the resistance for all dead ringers doesnt last forever, if im remembering correctly both feign resistances last 5 seconds. a dead ringer spy using the tough break is able to have a feign ready right after decloaking instead of the usual period of vulnerability dead ringer spies are expected to have after decloaking.

That's bullshit. The new-style dead ringer never let you refill from ammo while cloaked. Speaking of, that's also one thing where the old-style is better. Being able to traverse the map by picking up ammo is very useful, and using enemy dispensers to refill while cloaked like the regular invis watch is fun.


Re: Weapon Reverts Megathread

Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2026 8:24 am
by the_massive
huutti wrote: Tue Feb 24, 2026 8:18 am

That's bullshit. The new-style dead ringer never let you refill from ammo while cloaked.

You must be thinking of the jungle inferno nerf or something, you could pick up packs while cloaked with the tough break dead ringer, though in practice it was often better to decloak right before picking up a pack so you have another feign ready immediately.


Re: Weapon Reverts Megathread

Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2026 8:31 am
by huutti
the_massive wrote: Tue Feb 24, 2026 8:24 am
huutti wrote: Tue Feb 24, 2026 8:18 am

That's bullshit. The new-style dead ringer never let you refill from ammo while cloaked.

You must be thinking of the jungle inferno nerf or something, you could pick up packs while cloaked with the tough break dead ringer, though in practice it was often better to decloak right before picking up a pack so you have another feign ready immediately.

https://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/index.p ... id=2281647

Unlike the standard Invisibility Watch, Dispensers and ammo cannot replenish the Cloak meter while invisible.


Re: Weapon Reverts Megathread

Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2026 8:41 am
by the_massive
huutti wrote: Tue Feb 24, 2026 8:31 am

Unlike the standard Invisibility Watch, Dispensers and ammo cannot replenish the Cloak meter while invisible.

oh damn, thanks for the source on that. I was wrong about that then, forgot that after 9 years. I got so used to the playstyle of decloaking near packs and recharging the feign immediately i forgot you couldnt pick them up while invisible.


Re: Weapon Reverts Megathread

Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2026 6:35 am
by protons

For anyone who is curious about Dead Ringer versions, here's a couple of them. Does not currently include (as of the time of this writing) the Jan 6, 2010 - Jul 10, 2013 Dead Ringer version (same as pre-gm version, but has a flat 90% dmg resist regardless of dmg taken under the effect of feign)

Item NameCvar Key (sm_reverts__item<key>)_Cvar ValueDescriptionDate HistoryReferences
Dead Ringerringer1Reverted to pre-gunmettle, can pick up ammo, 90% dmg resist for up to 6.5s (reduced by dmg taken), no speedboost, no afterburn immunity after feign, no debuff reduction when cloakedJul 10, 2013 - Jul 2, 2015 (2 yrs)Wiki, Wiki video
Dead Ringer (Variant 1)2Reverted to pre-inferno, same modern stats but can pick up ammo while uncloaked, 35% less cloak from ammo boxesDec 17, 2015 - Oct 20, 2017 (2 yrs)Wiki
Dead Ringer (Variant 2)3Reverted to pre-toughbreak, same modern stats but 50% initial dmg resist, can pick up ammo while uncloaked, 35% less cloak from ammo boxesJul 2, 2015 - Dec 17, 2015 (5 months)Wiki
Dead Ringer (Variant 3)4Reverted to post-release, 90% dmg resist for 6.5s, no speedboost, full drain on early decloak, no afterburn immunity after feign, no debuff reduction when cloakedMay 26, 2009 - Jun 23, 2009 (1 month)Old TF2Wiki, Changelog
Dead Ringer (Variant 4)5Reverted to release, 90% dmg resist for 6.5s, no speedboost, no drain on early decloak, no afterburn immunity after feign, no debuff reduction when cloakedMay 21, 2009 - May 26, 2009 (5 days)Changelog, Video 1, Video 2
Dead Ringer (Variant 5)6Reverted to pre-Jan 6, 2010; can fully pick up ammo, 90% dmg resist for 6.5s, no speedboost, up to 40% drain on early decloak, no afterburn immunity after feign, no debuff reduction when cloakedJun 23, 2009 - Jan 6, 2010 (7 months)Changelog, Video 1, Video 2

Re: Weapon Reverts Megathread

Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2026 12:47 am
by val
VerdiusArcana wrote: Tue Feb 17, 2026 2:19 am

Heard the "detonate stickies while taunting" revert finally got merged.
To start using it, you gotta do this in your console:

Code: Select all

bind mouse2 "+attack2;sm_detonatestickies"

Yes the "" is necessary if chaining commands, do not skip them!

Pairing commands prevents +attack2 from triggering spectator controls.
To fix this, you have to bind the action manually like below:

Code: Select all

bind "MOUSE2" "+attack2;sm_detonatestickies;spec_prev"
val wrote: Thu Feb 19, 2026 9:44 pm

Try adding this to your autoexec:

Code: Select all

con_filter_enable 1;con_filter_text_out sm_detonatestickies

Bump.


Re: Weapon Reverts Megathread

Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2026 7:35 am
by the_massive

I have no idea where else to post this, but whatever command or plugin allows soldier/demos to rocket jump during freeze time should be expanded, as you used to be able to conga forwards too.


Re: Weapon Reverts Megathread

Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2026 11:50 pm
by protons
the_massive wrote: Thu Feb 26, 2026 7:35 am

I have no idea where else to post this, but whatever command or plugin allows soldier/demos to rocket jump during freeze time should be expanded, as you used to be able to conga forwards too.

do you have historical sources for this? when did that get patched? would be helpful to know


Re: Weapon Reverts Megathread

Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2026 4:57 am
by the_massive
protons wrote: Thu Feb 26, 2026 11:50 pm

do you have historical sources for this? when did that get patched? would be helpful to know

https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Conga#Update_history

November 3, 2015 Patch

Updated taunts to prevent movement during the pre-round period when players are frozen.


Re: Weapon Reverts Megathread

Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2026 5:08 am
by huutti
Suspicious Carl wrote: Sun Feb 15, 2026 4:20 am
huutti wrote: Fri Feb 13, 2026 2:30 pm

can we for the love of god finally have a trial for the reverted soda popper with jumps
for a week at least, it's still a scattergun with high burst damage

Image

I am willing to claim that anyone against having this is legitimately a retard scrub who somehow cannot live with free minicrits on a gun that is already good at killing.


Re: Weapon Reverts Megathread

Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2026 10:22 pm
by Suspicious Carl

Can we try out one of the full slowdown natascha varients for a couple days? I want to use it in the context of real people and not bots, it's probably op? But you never know until you try it, please consider :ugeek:
I would like to try the varient with no spinup increase over the 300 ammo because i think heavy doesnt struggle with ammo pickup too much but either version is fine by me


Re: Weapon Reverts Megathread

Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2026 3:17 am
by huutti
Suspicious Carl wrote: Sat Feb 28, 2026 10:22 pm

Can we try out one of the full slowdown natascha varients for a couple days? I want to use it in the context of real people and not bots, it's probably op? But you never know until you try it, please consider :ugeek:
I would like to try the varient with no spinup increase over the 300 ammo because i think heavy doesnt struggle with ammo pickup too much but either version is fine by me

this, no spinup increase please


Re: Weapon Reverts Megathread

Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2026 3:31 am
by huutti

Does anyone even use and like the reverted Cleaner's Carbine? From my view, it is very underwhelming because you have to get a kill with a painfully slow SMG just for peanuts of a crit-boost and for what? Getting a cheeky noscope crit on some poor soul? I agree it may be funny but is it that useful?

I suggest going back to vanilla. You don't have to get a kill, only deal damage to fill it up, and activate it at will whenever you want. Even though it's just minicrits instead of full crits, I'd argue it's more useful overall.
"Oh, but the vanilla is only useful with bushwacka" -- It's still a valid use case for the vanilla Carbine. Hell it's even better on this server, because the Bushwacka is reverted that makes you only take increased fire damage instead of all damage being increased.


Re: Weapon Reverts Megathread

Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2026 8:44 pm
by Suspicious Carl
huutti wrote: Sun Mar 01, 2026 3:17 am
Suspicious Carl wrote: Sat Feb 28, 2026 10:22 pm

Can we try out one of the full slowdown natascha varients for a couple days? I want to use it in the context of real people and not bots, it's probably op? But you never know until you try it, please consider :ugeek:
I would like to try the varient with no spinup increase over the 300 ammo because i think heavy doesnt struggle with ammo pickup too much but either version is fine by me

this, no spinup increase please

Still this


Re: Weapon Reverts Megathread

Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2026 2:31 am
by random

I have enabled the pre dec 2010 variant of the natscha and have disabled the cleaners carbine revert.

This will very likely be the last set of reverts I touch before hopefully freezing the plugin (or at least our config) indefinitely. Every other weapon seems to be in a pretty good spot. So let's see how these two do and we can decide whether to keep them or not.

My only worry of the natascha is it being too overpowered, and carbine is negligible because no one really uses it, at least this restores the bushwacka synergy


Re: Weapon Reverts Megathread

Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2026 3:15 am
by MysticKero

Gentlemen, I propose that we revert to a FIXED version of the shortstop, where each shot slows a target by 40% for 0.5 seconds. Maybe we could reduce the duration to 0.3 seconds or something so that it will be slightly less annoying. Anyways, I think it would be mega kool to have the shortstop actually stop people short.. of something. What do you guys think?


Re: Weapon Reverts Megathread

Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2026 3:56 am
by Suspicious Carl

Natascha is a hell of a lotta fun but if people hate playing against it then so be it, drop ya thoughts on it here, cus i think it can be annoying as hell to get hit but the damage output is absolutely abysmal :ugeek:


Re: Weapon Reverts Megathread

Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2026 7:26 pm
by HerraBoo

Are teletraps something you would be willing to revert? Back in the day you could place teleport entrance on top of the exit and trap yourself (and anyone else who used the teleporter). If you were using the wrangler this allowed you to build momentum by shooting yourself with a sentry and after that you could destroy teleporter entrance and launch yourself super far.

Here is a clip of it in action:

this was super fun to do in a balloon race sever : D


Re: Weapon Reverts Megathread

Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2026 12:58 pm
by random
HerraBoo wrote: Sat Mar 21, 2026 7:26 pm

Are teletraps something you would be willing to revert? Back in the day you could place teleport entrance on top of the exit and trap yourself (and anyone else who used the teleporter). If you were using the wrangler this allowed you to build momentum by shooting yourself with a sentry and after that you could destroy teleporter entrance and launch yourself super far.

It was fun to do but I think this was patched out not because of the ability to do wrangler jumps, but because it allowed you to get your teammates stuck, and I think that the majority of people, were it reverted, would be using it for trolling rather than for wrangler jumps


Re: Weapon Reverts Megathread

Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2026 7:01 pm
by HerraBoo
random wrote: Mon Mar 23, 2026 12:58 pm

It was fun to do but I think this was patched out not because of the ability to do wrangler jumps, but because it allowed you to get your teammates stuck, and I think that the majority of people, were it reverted, would be using it for trolling rather than for wrangler jumps

I will honor it if you wish to not revert it but consider this before you make your final decision.
The grieving was only a problem if there were 2 engineers doing it. For alone you need both your teleporters to be in the same place where it was easy to identify that it was a trap. And if 2 engineers decide to troll and you get trapped you can just kill bind and no longer take the tele. But I can live without it, for it was only actually useful in balloon race.


Re: Weapon Reverts Megathread

Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2026 7:04 pm
by HerraBoo

Also I don't like the new Natascha change, it now feels very niche without the damage resistance and I barely notice any differenc with the new slow effect.
I would much rather have the 20% damage resistance when spun up rather than a little bit better slow effect.


Re: Weapon Reverts Megathread

Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2026 8:06 pm
by random
HerraBoo wrote: Tue Mar 24, 2026 7:04 pm

Also I don't like the new Natascha change, it now feels very niche without the damage resistance and I barely notice any differenc with the new slow effect.
I would much rather have the 20% damage resistance when spun up rather than a little bit better slow effect.

I put in a patch for it actually which you may not have tried yet, huutti found the one in the plugin didn't have as strong of a slow as it was supposed to. Give it another shot and see what you think. I don't mind either way


Re: Weapon Reverts Megathread

Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2026 1:13 am
by random
random wrote: Thu Mar 19, 2026 2:31 am

I have enabled the pre dec 2010 variant of the natscha and have disabled the cleaners carbine revert.

This will very likely be the last set of reverts I touch before hopefully freezing the plugin (or at least our config) indefinitely. Every other weapon seems to be in a pretty good spot. So let's see how these two do and we can decide whether to keep them or not.

My only worry of the natascha is it being too overpowered, and carbine is negligible because no one really uses it, at least this restores the bushwacka synergy

Undid this as both of these appeared very unfavored


Re: Weapon Reverts Megathread

Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2026 3:19 am
by Suspicious Carl

In my never ending crusade to abolish or heavily reduce the time spent in the game rule we have set for reverts, i would like to bring attention to something that is very important to me and i hold dear to my heart.

A few days ago marked the end of the april fools 2026 event, and while most of those changes were silly and deserving of removal, there are a few i genuinely believe have a place in the server as permanent additions, but in this post i want to stick to 2 specific changes: the steak and the sandvich.

I propose we switch the steak to the varient that allows you to stack with the GRU, and allows you to drop it on the ground for 150HP in the spirit of the sandvich revert, i also propose along with this we swap the sandvich back to its original version we used, the pre engineer update version, and here is my reasoning.

THE SANDVICH:

In its current state there is almost 0 reason ever to use the left click on the sandvich, being above 150HP will guarantee you full health, and below 150HP is not even a big deal, 150 health is 150 health, the only time left clicking is usefull is when you are dangerously close to death, say less then 30 health. This is because right clicking is instant, and health packs exists aswell, meaning you can double stack health pickups for full health and even regain your sandvich (allbeit inconsistant due to pack placement, if someone took it etc) should you be at full health or near a resupply. Having a 30 second recharge AND the ability to regain it through picking up health packs makes the dropping feature heavily overshadow the eating taunt. With the original sandvich the instant 150HP was a risk reward mechanic. You could eat your sandvich as many times as you wanted, but it came with a 4 second forced taunt everytime you chose to do so, the drop on the other hand, promised you an instant 150HP at the cost of it being somewhat unreliable. it's difficult and inconsistant to regain your sandvich. You might be thinking this sounds like a nerf. Why would i want it to be worse? Because WE CAN HAVE THE BEST OF BOTH WORLDS!

THE STEAK:

As it stands the steak is a gimmick weapon, a fun gimmick for sure but a gimmick regardless. There is zero practical use for it outside of dropping it to team mates which every other lunch item can do and the niche ability to make heavy run faster without having to use GRU (which is hardly viable since you take more damage, cant swap weapons and forgo a secondary AKA sandvich). Reverting the steak to the version i am proposing bumps it from a very fun gimmick to a very fun gimmick AND a genuinely useful/viable tool. First of all it does't remove the melee restriction nor the minicrits allowing for it's iconic fun playstyle, secondly, pairing it with the gru unlocks an insane level of speed for heavy which on paper sounds stupid and unbalanced but i promise you, is not. You also take minicrits, and anyone who seriously plays heavy knows taking minicrits is next to a death sentence for the big guy. This would be useful for getting around and can even act as a psuedo bonk assuming nobody sees you or doesnt bother to chase you. And third: this version also does what the sandvich does right now, it drops instant 150HP packs with a 30 second recharge.

MORE VARIETY, MORE OPTIONS, MORE FUN:

I believe these 2 changes would be very welcome, fun, and balanced changes to heavy, his sandvich will allow him more healing capabilities with the ability to choose when it's the right time to sit back and eat or drop himself health in a pinch, his steak will allow him not just a fun gimmick playstyle, but a useful tool allowing him greater movement with an inconsistant but helpful healing option, and it would make both parties happy. The party of people who dearly miss the old sandvich (me and at least 4 others), and the party of people who think having the sandvich be removed from your character is a bad idea specifically in the case of playing medic (1 guy). Which brings me to the final part:

WHO WOULD COMPLAIN ABOUT THESE CHANGES?

I genuinely believe nobody. In regards to the steak, i have seen nothing but support for it's addition before, during, and after the april fools event. I believe it to be a consistantly requested addition. And in regards to the sandvich, there are a grand total of 2 people i can think of who were against it. Not naming names, One person said the right click would render the eating taunt useless (which isn't true and is a FAR bigger problem with our current version) And the second person was such a persistant, vocal advocate against it that i firmly believe they were the single reason the sandvich was changed. And it just dont sit right with me that were using this sandvich because a medic main was mad they weren't getting constant medium packs from their heavy pocket, a problem solved by said heavy simply equipping the steak.

I absolutely love Heavy and i love all of the changes we have given to him, his many reverts do not go unnoticed or unappreciated by me and other certified Heavy Gods. i understand it has been stated multiple times that we are ending the addition/reworking of new reverts (permanently?) But these are 2 changes i am very passionate about, it would add more variety to heavy, more options, buff him, give the steak a whole new life on the server, and me + freshmen can sleep peacefully knowing our beloved sandvich has returned to us.

EDIT: forgot to mention the banana, i have tried time and time again to justify its use in some way but theres no way around it: the sandvich overshadows it. But you know what nigga? FUCK the banana! Its a boring uninspired straight upgrade to the sandvich meant to insult and belittle heavy for losing a (RIGGED) vote against pyro in the 2nd worst update ever forced onto the game. Fuck that dumbass banana man return to tradition, use the sandvich! (<-----other people in the server agree with this sentiment)


Re: Weapon Reverts Megathread

Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2026 2:42 am
by Suspicious Carl

^^^^^^ typed that out while blasted on the liqua so it has some typos and might be structured oddly but i pretty much stand by everything i said in it


Re: Weapon Reverts Megathread

Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2026 5:20 am
by Gabber

Steak i support 100%. It would turn from a retarded gimmick weapon that 2 people use into a retarded gimmick weapon that 2 people use but slightly more dangerous. It lasting 2 days historically doesn't really matter. We'll be making an objectively shitty weapon slightly less shit, which is what we're supposed to do.
Sandvich is already god tier as is and i dont see any point changing it.


Re: Weapon Reverts Megathread

Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2026 11:24 am
by Buchou

I agree with Gabber. The sandvich being "overpowered" is really a non issue because anything that makes Heavy good again is good. I've said this before but the reason people demand a Heavy update is because live TF2 Heavy is so horribly weak due to years of nerfs. Restoring the GRU, sandvich, minigun spin up, etc. are all good changes, so getting a more useable BSS is a welcome change.


Re: Weapon Reverts Megathread

Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2026 9:10 pm
by Suspicious Carl

Im not saying it's OP, i just want to shift the power back to the left click because on demand full health kicks ass and is fun as hell

cmon bruh dont do me dirty like this


Re: Weapon Reverts Megathread

Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2026 10:31 am
by Asmo

I agree that the steak deserves a buff, heavy needs all the help he can get. I don't agree with nerfing the sanvich to more evenly distribute the fun. Sounds like something I'd hear in a TF tuber video essay.