Minecraft Server

[mjaded]

hello.

i'm sure there have been numerous discussions regarding a potential minecraft server here, but the one that was had last night during the NA tf2 session got me thinking. normally the same question always gets raised with creating a minecraft server, that being "what version do we play". castaway, being a tf2 server, never has this problem, you can just join on the most recent vanilla client and get the more classic experience. i think i've collected enough knowledge regarding java edition over the past few years to say that i can create a similar experience for minecraft.

a server that vanilla clients on the most recent version of minecraft java edition (at the time of writing, 26.1.2, soon to be 26.2) can join and get the old minecraft-esque experience without having to install anything else. all you have to do as a player is put on the Programmer Art resource pack, which is built into the vanilla game, and when you connect to the server you will be prompted with the option to download a custom resource pack compiled by me, that will then be loaded every time you join. this resource pack captures the rough feeling of 2011 minecraft, and most of the texture work is done by people i know.

the server itself has a custom old-style world generator, old combat ported 1 for 1, and several vanilla structures are prevented from generating, namely villages and the stronghold. the end is completely inaccessible, and villagers are harder to get.

so far that's basically all the work i've done. i'm simplifying as much as i can here because i know most people aren't going to be interested in all the little details.

i'm creating this post to see if there is player interest in a server like this, and what else people would want to see added or removed.

[huutti]

Sounds cool, but to me running latest is retarded. If certain aspects of modern minecraft are to be culled out, then why not use an older but still new-ish version such as 1.12.2 or 1.16.5 as a base instead?

[mjaded]

i'm not really trying to cut that many features. honestly, most of the problems i think people have with the modern game stem from older features, like the end dimension and the combat changes, both are a decade+ old at this point. if you bring back the old feel of the game, most people aren't gonna mind some actually cool modern features like trial chambers. another reason i would prefer to host it on a modern release is because of the expanded ability of resource packs in recent years. you can fully recreate the old beta lighting engine/aesthetic after around 1.18, which is what i have put on the testing server right now so if anyone joins, the pack is downloaded and have the old look of the game instantly.

for a server on any scale, it is simplest for most people if they only have to launch the most recent update. if everyone agrees that we should run some specific old verison, then we can decide on one.

[fox]

Minecraft is fun if you have a building idea in mind. In that regard, a goal should be to make random's TC map a reality in Minecraft, which will perhaps motivate him (or other map makers) to make it real in TF2.
viewtopic.php?t=37

If the server host is willing to give mods a try, then I recommend Better than Adventure for combining pre-hunger Minecraft with newer features along with providing a Beta multiplayer experience that isn't bugged to hell (versus Beta 1.7.3).
https://www.betterthanadventure.net/downloads/

[mjaded]

i will say this as someone who has been inside the legacy modding sphere since the pandemic: BTA is definitely more of a builder's mod than an actual adventure mod. that is completely fine if that's what you all want to do. i figured a beta-emulated-in-modern experience would be more familiar to most people, and it's something i know my way around. but, if enough people want to play a given legacy mod, i'd be more than happy to oblige.

about the TC map, it can absolutely be done with command blocks. pretty easily, too. the main thing would be making the whole map, which shouldn't be that difficult either considering it's minecraft. i was speaking with Society Gaming yesterday and the topic of minigames came up. i figure we can get it all on the same server, by creating custom dimensions with datapacks.

[huutti]

i'm not really trying to cut that many features. honestly, most of the problems i think people have with the modern game stem from older features, like the end dimension and the combat changes, both are a decade+ old at this point. if you bring back the old feel of the game, most people aren't gonna mind some actually cool modern features like trial chambers. another reason i would prefer to host it on a modern release is because of the expanded ability of resource packs in recent years. you can fully recreate the old beta lighting engine/aesthetic after around 1.18, which is what i have put on the testing server right now so if anyone joins, the pack is downloaded and have the old look of the game instantly.

for a server on any scale, it is simplest for most people if they only have to launch the most recent update. if everyone agrees that we should run some specific old verison, then we can decide on one.

makes sense, though I did recall afterward that newer versions have better mechanisms for resource packs

[Asmo]

I'd be down to play Minecraft. However, I think we should play beta to keep in the spirit of Castaway. We're a revert server after all. The problem with the modern game is that it feels way too focused on grinding and the block palette is oversaturated, which from my experience, stifles creativity.

The beauty in beta is that there are so few blocks to choose from that you hardly ever spend time procrastinating about a build, you just GO. There's no meta to follow, so you're always building something different. Whatever comes to mind, it never feels like you're on a linear path.

Here's some screenshots from my single player world. It's been a few months since I last played.

[Gabber]

Firstly - minecraft is GAY
Secondly - I have no intention of ever playing a game that isn't TF2
Thirdly - We don't need sessions bleeding because sum f4gz are 2 busy building cobblestone coq n balls instead of serving in the badlands

[Suspicious Carl]

Firstly - minecraft is GAY
Secondly - I have no intention of ever playing a game that isn't TF2
Thirdly - We don't need sessions bleeding because sum f4gz are 2 busy building cobblestone coq n balls instead of serving in the badlands

okay but castaway gets 2 full servers 24 hours a day, you not gonna run some fistful of frags on the side?

PS in a hypothetical scenario where this came to life it should be 1.7.3

[fox]

about the TC map, it can absolutely be done with command blocks

Completing the layout is all that is needed. No need for functionality. It just makes the TF2 map making process far easier if the author can visualize what they are constructing.

Secondly - I have no intention of ever playing a game that isn't TF2

Variety prevents burnout while still being connected to the community.

play beta

it should be 1.7.3

The bugs in multiplayer Beta 1.7.3 will make for a less-than-ideal experience, and not in a fun way. Give BTA a try.

On the topic of Minecraft, I made this edit of 2fort some time back. If you hate it, then you are a faggot.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 3710640946

[mjaded]

Secondly - I have no intention of ever playing a game that isn't TF2
Thirdly - We don't need sessions bleeding because sum f4gz are 2 busy building cobblestone coq n balls instead of serving in the badlands

if someone doesn't want to play they don't have to. this isn't an "officially endorsed" castaway thing. and i absolutely wouldn't want to leech players away from active sessions, which i don't think would happen. VA isn't active for most hours during the day in north america, so i expect most would just play then.

I'd be down to play Minecraft. However, I think we should play beta to keep in the spirit of Castaway. We're a revert server after all.

PS in a hypothetical scenario where this came to life it should be 1.7.3

we don't actually run 2012 tf2. we run modern tf2 and work backwards with plugins and mods to make a game we like. that's the work i have done so far in minecraft, is i take a newer version of the game and work backwards to reach an experience that most people would find aesthetically pleasing and fun.
running an actual beta server isn't ideal. the game is buggy as all hell, the server itself has awful security, there's zero quality of life, and to be quite honest there isn't enough content there to keep most people interested. if you and other interested players want to get an experience that's actually closer to beta, i can run a more bare bones version like 1.18, because of its resource pack capabilities allowing a full port of the beta aesthetic. or, if people really want it, we can try BTA like fox suggests. though i will stress again that i think it's easier to keep it going if people don't need to install anything to play.

when most people talk about the modern game being enshittified by microsoft, they usually mean stuff from the cave update onwards. and with the cave update version itself (1.18) it's pretty easy to remove the few things it added and modify the world generation.

[Society Gaming]

Firstly - minecraft is GAY
Secondly - I have no intention of ever playing a game that isn't TF2
Thirdly - We don't need sessions bleeding because sum f4gz are 2 busy building cobblestone coq n balls instead of serving in the badlands

If I build rd_asteroid on the server, will you join?

[Suspicious Carl]

Secondly - I have no intention of ever playing a game that isn't TF2
Thirdly - We don't need sessions bleeding because sum f4gz are 2 busy building cobblestone coq n balls instead of serving in the badlands

if someone doesn't want to play they don't have to. this isn't an "officially endorsed" castaway thing. and i absolutely wouldn't want to leech players away from active sessions, which i don't think would happen. VA isn't active for most hours during the day in north america, so i expect most would just play then.

I'd be down to play Minecraft. However, I think we should play beta to keep in the spirit of Castaway. We're a revert server after all.

PS in a hypothetical scenario where this came to life it should be 1.7.3

we don't actually run 2012 tf2. we run modern tf2 and work backwards with plugins and mods to make a game we like. that's the work i have done so far in minecraft, is i take a newer version of the game and work backwards to reach an experience that most people would find aesthetically pleasing and fun.
running an actual beta server isn't ideal. the game is buggy as all hell, the server itself has awful security, there's zero quality of life, and to be quite honest there isn't enough content there to keep most people interested. if you and other interested players want to get an experience that's actually closer to beta, i can run a more bare bones version like 1.18, because of its resource pack capabilities allowing a full port of the beta aesthetic. or, if people really want it, we can try BTA like fox suggests. though i will stress again that i think it's easier to keep it going if people don't need to install anything to play.

when most people talk about the modern game being enshittified by microsoft, they usually mean stuff from the cave update onwards. and with the cave update version itself (1.18) it's pretty easy to remove the few things it added and modify the world generation.

im an old minecraft build larping tourist i just said that cus thats what everyone else says prime minecraft is

[mjaded]

im an old minecraft build larping tourist i just said that cus thats what everyone else says prime minecraft is

unironically many such cases of this in general legacy MC discussion. too many are too deep in the beta circlejerk to realize that it isnt actually that good aside from aesthetics. the 2011 look of the game was perfect, and there are aspects of the gameplay that are good but there is much to be desired

[Asmo]

too many are too deep in the beta circlejerk to realize that it isnt actually that good aside from aesthetics.

Nigga's about to morph into a britbong and tell me I'm wearing rose-tinted glasses.

[mjaded]

Nigga's about to morph into a britbong and tell me I'm wearing rose-tinted glasses.

not exactly, because 90% of the people who won't shut up about how great vanilla beta is weren't actually there to play it when it was new. can't have rose tinted glasses for a time they didn't live through.
if you enjoy beta, that's great, but generally a server needs more sauce to survive

[Dillon]

Nigga's about to morph into a britbong and tell me I'm wearing rose-tinted glasses.

not exactly, because 90% of the people who won't shut up about how great vanilla beta is weren't actually there to play it when it was new. can't have rose tinted glasses for a time they didn't live through.
if you enjoy beta, that's great, but generally a server needs more sauce to survive

Agreed. Just play on version 1.16.5 with a beta/classic MC-themed texture pack, it's far better than beta. There's not as much block bloat as there is in newer versions, and you can actually sprint and do things in the game other than walk around (without being able to sprint) and stare at the same 8 blocks. Obsessing over beta Minecraft is some of the faggiest LARPing there is.

[mjaded]

Agreed. Just play on version 1.16.5 with a beta/classic MC-themed texture pack, it's far better than beta.

speaking of, i have thrown together a proof-of-concept 1.17.1 server. it's on 1.17 because that's the version when all the resource pack special sauce got added, so a vanilla client can join and get the beta aesthetic including fog/lighting. i thought this was 1.18, but i had misremembered. i feel like i've done most of what i can so far but there's a few more things to add.

so far we got:
-old combat, including old axe/sword damage values (except for sword blocking. i tried to figure out a way to get it on 1.17, it's just not possible. that's a 1.21.2+ thing)
-old villages instead of 1.14 villages. i know some people may just ask to remove villagers entirely, but the only way to get enchantments otherwise is to gamble on the table. a friend of mine is working on a plugin to make the enchant table more consistent, but i'm not sure i can make that work on a fabric server. i'll try
-custom world generation, pretty much beta with modern biomes
-a beta-style resource pack i've compiled, mostly textures another friend of mine did several years ago.

to-do: figure out how to remove structures. i want to remove strongholds, the end dimension doesn't need to be on a server like this. i also want to remove more modern filler structures like ocean and portal ruins.

[Dillon]

Agreed. Just play on version 1.16.5 with a beta/classic MC-themed texture pack, it's far better than beta.

to-do: figure out how to remove structures. i want to remove strongholds, the end dimension doesn't need to be on a server like this. i also want to remove more modern filler structures like ocean and portal ruins.

What? Having the End there wouldn't ruin a server like this. Having a Minecraft world without one of the three dimensions to explore is a stupid idea if you ask me.

[mjaded]

What? Having the End there wouldn't ruin a server like this. Having a Minecraft world without one of the three dimensions to explore is a stupid idea if you ask me.

if they had actually updated the end i would agree with you. it's not fun to explore at all, it's a gamble of most people's time. also, having something marked as an ending, even if it doesn't force you to stop playing after you kill the dragon, often leads to small servers dying. there's two things you can get from the end, one being elytra which i'm pretty sure old minecraft fans wouldn't want anyway, and shulker boxes. if people really want those there's a better way we can come up with to obtain them than wasting time walking across an empty half-assed dimension

[banifatsiy04]

I spent an entire night researching this topic which, probably sadly, isn't actually the worst waste of time I have ever done

Anyways, I agree with Carl that this should be Beta 1.7.3 if it comes to life. Next version being Beta 1.8 introduced sprinting, hunger, significantly changed bows, added mineshafts, oceans, villages, and strongholds, which are bad additions for various reasons (if anyone says that sprinting isn't that bad, it makes minecarts nearly redundant as you can literally outrun them). The 1.0 release version obviously added the End, which mjaded rightfully points that an End to a game like this and this dimension as a whole is underwhelming at best; but this update also added brewing and potions and enchants which make people much more resistant, and make the game much more complicated and very grindy. The next updates would proceed to add more unnecessary blocks and mechanics, the worst contenders being the Wither, and then the Elytra
I do kind of like BTA, but you can mine ice and make an equivalent of packed ice, which means that nether ice highways are a thing. Not to mention that you can very easily put water in the Nether, significantly reducing the difficulty of the game. The armor and tool system is really cool, without being too grindy, albeit it may again trivialize the game. The mod is also kind of abandoned. So I would favor Beta 1.7.3, although I think there's a patch that solely fixes the bugs (I think it's called BetaCraft) if anyone sees bugs as an issue
Also, before reading about updates, I was of the same opinion as Dillon that beta Minecraft people are obsessed LARPer freaks. But I have played even more trivial voxel building games for hours on end. I remember spending days like a year ago on an online game that had literally 4 blocks that you could rotate and paint if you got a rare drop. Beta Minecraft has the Nether, it has gravity blocks, it has pistons. You can build a wide arrange of things out of a few blocks, which may not be everyone's cup of tea, but I prefer this over having an insane variety of blocks most of which are really hard to obtain in large quanities without spending hours constructing farms and AFKing on them. Modern Minecraft is really competitive and overwhelming. There are hundreds of resources all of which need to be farmed if you want to construct something cool, and you end up being a package manager resolving farm dependencies and the farms you construct are ugly because you lack the resources. In Beta Minecraft, you first mine the blocks, and then build your stuff. Modern Minecraft requires the use of YouTube tutorials or schematics (requiring client mods) to construct anything impressive. Beta Minecraft at most requires you to look up an old meme or a 360p video, but you can come up with a lot of cool stuff yourself

One problem I see is how it would be administered though and what rules there will be. An anarchy server is very competitive, but as it is meant to be a Castaway kind of server, having full build zones, tnt disabling, grief bans and all of that crap would be too reddity I believe. What I see as a solution is whitelisting and light rules (i.e. don't literally grief everything you see), which works for most SMPs

Also, for this to happen, somebody needs to have the balls to host a server and gather people. I can't provide more infrastructure than a website and a storage, but if somebody wants this to happen and believes there are enough people that want this, hmu, and I'll try to help

[mjaded]

Next version being Beta 1.8 introduced sprinting, hunger, significantly changed bows, added mineshafts, oceans, villages, and strongholds, which are bad additions for various reasons (if anyone says that sprinting isn't that bad, it makes minecarts nearly redundant as you can literally outrun them).

you can't outrun powered rail minecarts.

The 1.0 release version obviously added the End, which mjaded rightfully points that an End to a game like this and this dimension as a whole is underwhelming at best; but this update also added brewing and potions and enchants which make people much more resistant, and make the game much more complicated and very grindy. The next updates would proceed to add more unnecessary blocks and mechanics, the worst contenders being the Wither, and then the Elytra

that's.... kind of the point of what i'm currently working on. if i can figure out how to prevent strongholds from generating using a custom datapack, which i know is possible, then every bad feature that comes from the end is a non-factor on this server. there is no perfect vanilla version of the game that you can run a server on, there will always have to be some customization done to make a better experience.

i do not believe anyone would mind having newer features like the wither (beacons) and potions/enchantments.
even if you want the purest beta experience possible, it is still more worth it to just go to a newer version and mod backwards to get a 1:1 match. any item, structure, biome, block or whatever can be removed from play if you know how to configure a server, which i do.
for reasons i listed above i believe hosting a server on an actual beta version would be less than ideal. on top of the pure beta experience often lacking in substance and QoL, the netcode back in those days was atrocious. this is not only a little annoying for gameplay but really annoying for the one hosting the server.

I do kind of like BTA, but you can mine ice and make an equivalent of packed ice, which means that nether ice highways are a thing. Not to mention that you can very easily put water in the Nether, significantly reducing the difficulty of the game.

boats in minecraft did not become fast on ice until the 1.9 update. BTA is a mod for beta 1.7.3, and they didn't backport the newer boats, so you can't create ice highways in that mod. nor does placing ice in the nether actually allow you to create water. both of these points are wrong

The mod is also kind of abandoned. So I would favor Beta 1.7.3, although I think there's a patch that solely fixes the bugs (I think it's called BetaCraft) if anyone sees bugs as an issue

i'm believing less and less that you "researched all night" for this topic. BTA isn't an abandoned mod, they're working on a major update. BetaCraft is a launcher, not a single mod, not like that would matter because the goal of this is to allow a vanilla client on any given version to join. running a custom server jar that fixes small annoyances in b1.7.3 isn't really possible.

One problem I see is how it would be administered though and what rules there will be. An anarchy server is very competitive, but as it is meant to be a Castaway kind of server, having full build zones, tnt disabling, grief bans and all of that crap would be too reddity I believe. What I see as a solution is whitelisting and light rules (i.e. don't literally grief everything you see), which works for most SMPs

there would be a whitelist, but there shouldn't be any real restrictions if you're a sane individual. just don't go around blowing everything up constantly, relax and enjoy yourself. i've never been a fan of Towny or similar systems with land claims, i don't believe they're necessary on a small scale.

Also, for this to happen, somebody needs to have the balls to host a server and gather people. I can't provide more infrastructure than a website and a storage, but if somebody wants this to happen and believes there are enough people that want this, hmu, and I'll try to help

i was volunteering to host because i've been the one working on a prototype of sorts for the server, and i know where i can get a good host for cheap. the creation of this thread itself was me trying to gauge player interest.

the rest of your post goes into detail about how limitations are good and all that, which on paper i agree with. the problem, which i have observed, is that a server needs more than that to stay alive. i've seen vanilla beta servers die and for good reason, people generally want more. that's why i haven't put any effort into building a server like that, i've focused on creating a 1.17 server for the numerous reasons listed above.

[banifatsiy04]

Damn

i'm believing less and less that you "researched all night" for this topic

I did, but reading at night is probably not the best idea. I actually just spread misinformation online

nor does placing ice in the nether actually allow you to create water

This one is the only statement you got wrong though (or I guess I got right), at least according to this page: https://bta.miraheze.org/wiki/Ice

But now I actually hear you! I do see some value of having some features from the modern versions! It's a different experience, but it's a one that can work! Just like Castaway didn't remove the Dragon's Fury or even The Hot Hand just because they came in a shitty update. Although the games are very different. My question is what should we keep and what should we remove? If it were up to me, I'd remove observers, villages, end, and, possibly, ocean monuments. For me, personally, the most frustrating aspect of modern Minecraft is the grind. That also applies to building blocks that require massive farm construction to get in bulk too
For combat for example, I don't particularly care which version of combat it is as I think all versions are pretty playable and tasteful

Also, PM me if in need of a website/storage for the server

[mjaded]

I'd remove observers, villages, end, and, possibly, ocean monuments. For me, personally, the most frustrating aspect of modern Minecraft is the grind. That also applies to building blocks that require massive farm construction to get in bulk too

villages are the only thing here that i'm on the fence about. i gave my reasons for keeping them above (and for now the prototype runs a datapack to generate old villages instead of new ones) but i'm honestly not sure. removing them keeps some isolation that old minecraft did really well, but then enchanting becomes more annoying and gamble-y. enchanting is also annoying if you go the villager route, you have to gamble by placing blocks over and over but after you do that you have guaranteed enchantment trades for life. it's bad either way, if people are fine with gambling on the table then i'll remove villages entirely.

[banifatsiy04]

I am against villagers due to 3 things - enchants, and iron and raid farms. Enchanting usually requires setting up a trade hall and a breeder and it's a pain in the ass, very grindy, and tedious. The alternative masochist route is using the enchanting table to get a few enchants, or even combine multiple pieces of gear for better enchants, which is obviously very expensive. Getting max enchants is very tough either way - and I don't like a mechanic that makes me grind! Probably a me issue that I would prefer for this to be near impossible with combining gear than just hard with trading. Iron farms are even harder to set up and promote afking at a super slow farm which is boring - technically it's only necessary if you construct other large farms which would require a ton of iron, so I am unsure. Raid farms are straight up overpowered though - while difficult to construct, they give you infinite emeralds, exp, and most importantly totems. I am not against totems per se, but having the ability to acquire chests of them after setting up a very complex farm (that also gives you a ton of emeralds to ease mass trading), is something both grindy and overpowered. Another thing are fully automated crop farms, but they are only used either for bonemeal or for emeralds, and usually require too much setup for payoff (unless mass trading)
I think some of these issues can be circumvented by removing other villager features (iron golem spawning, raids), but I am not speaking from experience

[mjaded]

raids are being disabled no matter what, don't worry. in 1.17 the only ways you can get a raid are by Pillager Outposts and randomly spawning pillager patrols, which won't generate and won't spawn respectively on this server.

the enchanting thing might get solved if my friend locks in and makes the enchanting table plugin, which is designed to give you consistent enchantments for every item every time. but as i said before that's a bit of a gamble on if it'll even work on this server. it was designed for a different server that runs Paper, this one runs Fabric. tldr paper runs plugins and fabric runs mods. there is a fabric server mod that is SUPPOSED to let you use plugins, but i have yet to make it properly work. we will have to see