Weapon Reverts Megathread

[huutti]

can we for the love of god finally have a trial for the reverted soda popper with jumps
for a week at least, it's still a scattergun with high burst damage

[Suspicious Carl]

can we for the love of god finally have a trial for the reverted soda popper with jumps
for a week at least, it's still a scattergun with high burst damage

[Yea1Gore1]

unrevert stickies already. This joke went on too far

[chief]

Revert the Iron Bomber projectile's collision size, this is a valid QoL change

[the_massive]

Revert the Iron Bomber projectile's collision size, this is a valid QoL change

how can you tell it isnt

also simping for the tough break dead ringer again, if random cant get enough spy mains opinions i can make objective arguments if needed, for why the tough break dead ringer mogs the shit out of the current revert.

[chief]

It's a totally fine revert while the pre-gun mettle loch-n-load is accepted

[HerraBoo]

can we for the love of god finally have a trial for the reverted soda popper with jumps
for a week at least, it's still a scattergun with high burst damage

I also would like to see Soda Popper with extra jumps instead of mini-crits. I think the mini-crits are made redundant by Crit-a-cola and the extra jumps version goes well with the other weapons in the set it was made for. To me only reason to use this Soda Popper is if you want mini-crits and use the sandman guillotine combo at the same time.

[the_massive]

It's a totally fine revert while the pre-gun mettle loch-n-load is accepted

the reverted stats currently used are better than the pre gun mettle stats, the reason it doesn't oneshot low hp classes is because damage spread on grenades has been removed for a long time, which was separate to normal damage spread, since it was dependent on where the grenade hit the player, with more damage being applied if you hit them at the bottom of their hitbox, and less from the top for some reason.

[VerdiusArcana]

Heard the "detonate stickies while taunting" revert finally got merged.
To start using it, you gotta do this in your console:

Code: Select all

bind mouse2 "+attack2;sm_detonatestickies"

Yes the "" is necessary if chaining commands, do not skip them!

Side-effects: on servers that do not have the revert, you will get "Unknown command: sm_detonatestickies"
in the console every time you rightclick. I cannot do anything about it as binding to a sourcemod command was
the only workaround I could find for implementing this revert in a way that felt
more natural to players. As the previous solution would have required pressing AWD (Left, Forwards, Right) at the same time.
Technological limitations of not being fully able to tell the client what to do i'm afraid.

The +attack2 is required both to ensure that things like shield charging work, and to ensure that detonation works as normal when needed.
As in it's not optional.

You might wanna consider setting up class configs to rebind mouse2 for you
so it's only bound in the manner I described on demoman to cut down on the spam. I.e
rebind it to be normal on other classes:

Code: Select all

bind mouse2 +attack2

Thankfully, the command appears to only be sent once per click, so when you spin minigun it won't spam the console. But by setting up class configs
you can cut down the spam alot.

[protons]

I would like to now bring to attention the date histories of all the weapon reverts in the plugin - that is, the historical dates that a certain revert had existed at certain points of time, as well as the duration of that weapon revert's existence.

You can see the lifetimes of the reverts from the Weapon Revert List under the "Date History" column: https://github.com/rsedxcftvgyhbujnkiqw ... evert-List

This should help with arguing if a certain revert should exist. For example, a revert that only existed for 5 days should not be toggled on, while a revert that existed months or years should be used.

examplelist.jpg (137.81 KiB) Viewed 588 times

Fun fact, the Release Spy-cicle revert is the only weapon revert we have toggled on in the servers that only existed for eight days (Dec 15, 2011 - Dec 23, 2011 (8 days)), and is basically just the pre-Gun Mettle Spy-cicle that has existed for years (Dec 23, 2011 - Jul 2, 2015 (4 yrs)) but is able to do the stock Fencing taunt attack again.

[protons]

Also, can we please revert the Splendid Screen to its release version?

Here are its stats: Reverted to release, 25% fire resist, no faster recharge, crit after bash, no debuff removal, full bash dmg at any range
From the old TF2Wiki:

• Release Splendid Screen, Jun 23, 2011 - Jun 29, 2011 (6 days)
• +25% fire damage resistance on wearer
• +20% explosive damage resistance on wearer
• Can deal charge impact damage at any range
• +70% increase in charge impact damage

It's basically the pre-toughbreak version we have right now, but is slightly buffed so as to not be overshadowed by the other two shields (especially the Tide Turner).

I know it only lasted for 6 days in the game, but it desperately needs the slight fire and blast resist buffs. No one uses it that much compared to the Tide Turner and the Chargin' Targe, and the buffs look like they aren't too overpowered. The only difference between the release and pre-toughbreak versions are just the fire and explosive damage resistances.

For comparison, here is the pre-toughbreak Splendid Screen:

• Pre-Tough Break Splendid Screen, Jun 29, 2011 - Dec 17, 2015 (4 yrs)
• +20% fire damage resistance on wearer
• +15% explosive damage resistance on wearer
• Can deal charge impact damage at any range
• +70% increase in charge impact damage

[Suspicious Carl]

Also, can we please revert the Splendid Screen to its release version?

Here are its stats: Reverted to release, 25% fire resist, no faster recharge, crit after bash, no debuff removal, full bash dmg at any range
From the old TF2Wiki:

• Release Splendid Screen, Jun 23, 2011 - Jun 29, 2011 (6 days)
• +25% fire damage resistance on wearer
• +20% explosive damage resistance on wearer
• Can deal charge impact damage at any range
• +70% increase in charge impact damage

It's basically the pre-toughbreak version we have right now, but is slightly buffed so as to not be overshadowed by the other two shields (especially the Tide Turner).

I know it only lasted for 6 days in the game, but it desperately needs the slight fire and blast resist buffs. No one uses it that much compared to the Tide Turner and the Chargin' Targe, and the buffs look like they aren't too overpowered. The only difference between the release and pre-toughbreak versions are just the fire and explosive damage resistances.

For comparison, here is the pre-toughbreak Splendid Screen:

• Pre-Tough Break Splendid Screen, Jun 29, 2011 - Dec 17, 2015 (4 yrs)
• +20% fire damage resistance on wearer
• +15% explosive damage resistance on wearer
• Can deal charge impact damage at any range
• +70% increase in charge impact damage

As a certified time existence rule abolishment supporter and a splendid screen god i fully agree

[Scout]

Also, can we please revert the Splendid Screen to its release version?

Here are its stats: Reverted to release, 25% fire resist, no faster recharge, crit after bash, no debuff removal, full bash dmg at any range
From the old TF2Wiki:

• Release Splendid Screen, Jun 23, 2011 - Jun 29, 2011 (6 days)
• +25% fire damage resistance on wearer
• +20% explosive damage resistance on wearer
• Can deal charge impact damage at any range
• +70% increase in charge impact damage

It's basically the pre-toughbreak version we have right now, but is slightly buffed so as to not be overshadowed by the other two shields (especially the Tide Turner).

I know it only lasted for 6 days in the game, but it desperately needs the slight fire and blast resist buffs. No one uses it that much compared to the Tide Turner and the Chargin' Targe, and the buffs look like they aren't too overpowered. The only difference between the release and pre-toughbreak versions are just the fire and explosive damage resistances.

For comparison, here is the pre-toughbreak Splendid Screen:

• Pre-Tough Break Splendid Screen, Jun 29, 2011 - Dec 17, 2015 (4 yrs)
• +20% fire damage resistance on wearer
• +15% explosive damage resistance on wearer
• Can deal charge impact damage at any range
• +70% increase in charge impact damage

This (and the Spy-cicle revert too while we're at it) conflicts me. I like the idea of these reverts, but I still don't think we should revert weapons to versions that existed for such a short period of time. I have to say no, if just for consistency's sake.

[Gabber]

unrevert stickies already. This joke went on too far

stop crying about this bum ass no weed having ass nigga
we revert retarded pointless nerfs on this server, this is one of them

[Pig]

There is absolutely no reason that the time a version of a weapon existed in the past should be a reason to choose that version.
Pick the best revert, no matter if it only lasted for like a day.

[random]

There is absolutely no reason that the time a version of a weapon existed in the past should be a reason to choose that version.
Pick the best revert, no matter if it only lasted for like a day.

You say this but you have to remember weapons that lasted a day only lasted a day for a reason. The original red tape recorder is retarded, the original splendid screen (if I recall correctly) is a near direct upgrade to the charge 'n targe, etc.

[Suspicious Carl]

There is absolutely no reason that the time a version of a weapon existed in the past should be a reason to choose that version.
Pick the best revert, no matter if it only lasted for like a day.

You say this but you have to remember weapons that lasted a day only lasted a day for a reason. The original red tape recorder is retarded, the original splendid screen (if I recall correctly) is a near direct upgrade to the charge 'n targe, etc.

I disagree with pig about weapons that existed for only a day, but i still think that 1-3 weeks is ok if we're going on a weapon by weapon bases, of course the red tape shouldnt be added, but i still hold the view there are a handful of dope reverts that dont even have a chance of being tested because the rule is in place, sucks seeing certain weapons that could be improved but then instantly dropping the idea upon realizing it was only a thing for a month

If we we're allowed to try the release screen i still think the chargin targe would have a place considering it still offers both 25% more explosive and fire resis + you are immune to afterburn, but of course if were wrong were wrong it can be changed back to what we have now of course

[protons]

You say this but you have to remember weapons that lasted a day only lasted a day for a reason. The original red tape recorder is retarded, the original splendid screen (if I recall correctly) is a near direct upgrade to the charge 'n targe, etc.

You have to remember that the Tide Turner didn't exist back then when Valve decided to nerf the Splendid Screen. When it came with the shields, the newest shield would always powercreep the previously released shields. For the Chargin' Targe, it was powercreeped by the Splendid Screen. For the Splendid Screen (and the Targe), it was powercreeped by the Tide Turner.

The point I'm trying to make is that we currently have the reverted Tide Turner, which powercreeps both the Splendid Screen and Chargin' Targe. Out of the shields, the pre-Tough Break Splendid Screen seems to have gotten the short end of the stick when it comes to stats. Because it seems to be weakest, I bet it would be the least used among the three shields.

Aside from that, if we are going to revert weapons that say have lasted for less than a month or days, then I would suggest the following guidelines so that it doesn't open Pandora's Box:

• The revert must not be ridiculously overpowered (by that I mean that likely 95% of the playerbase would find it annoying to fight against, and extremely easy to fight with). See Release Tomislav as an example (75% faster spin up speed, literally instantaneous).
• Weapons that existed for only one (1) day should not be reverted.
• If reverting it allows it to compete better with the other reverts and weapons, like what I'm suggesting for the Splendid Screen
• If the revert is trivial (just like the Spy-cicle Fencing taunt attack)

Thoughts on these guidelines? Or maybe it needs some editing?

[Pig]

Agree with Carl and Protons. I just said a day for a rhetorical point, but I really don’t think any item that existed for only a day would be a good idea. Valve tried a lot of fixes to weapons back in the day that only lasted a few weeks due to player backlash, but just because people rejected them in the past, doesn’t mean we can’t try it.

Objectively, we are play testing all the items against each other, so we have to make different decisions than valve did in the specific time they were play testing. The splendid screen is a good example (its simply outclassed).

[Yea1Gore1]

unrevert stickies already. This joke went on too far

stop crying about this bum ass no weed having ass nigga
we revert retarded pointless nerfs on this server, this is one of them

the only purpose of this shitter revert is to make one of the easiest to use weapons even easier to use. At least dragon's fury removes retarded hitbox gimick. Chink was walking on thin ice with iron bomber and release sandman revert suggestions but now he needs to be lynched for stickies

[val]

I would also like to see the Soda Popper w/ jumps, either the revert or the latest iteration. +3 in favor.
The rework made the weapon a lot more unique in my opinion, way more fun overall.
You can't get that level of mobility from anywhere else in Scout's arsenal, the old version overlapped too much with the Crit-a-Cola.

Heard the "detonate stickies while taunting" revert finally got merged.
To start using it, you gotta do this in your console:

Code: Select all

bind mouse2 "+attack2;sm_detonatestickies"

Yes the "" is necessary if chaining commands, do not skip them!

Side-effects: on servers that do not have the revert, you will get "Unknown command: sm_detonatestickies"
in the console every time you rightclick. I cannot do anything about it.

Try adding this to your autoexec:

Code: Select all

con_filter_enable 1;con_filter_text_out sm_detonatestickies

[the_massive]

... You can't get that level of mobility from anywhere else in Scout's arsenal, the old version overlapped too much with the Crit-a-Cola.
...

The Force a Nature is cringing in your direction

[the_massive]

In lieu of tons of spy mains randomly giving out their opinion on which version of the Dead Ringer was the best, I'm just going to put the facts down clearly and succinctly.

The current (pre gun-mettle) revert of the dead ringer has only one advantage over the tough break version, 90% damage resistance, effectively 1250hp with a full health spy.

The tough break dead ringer has 75% damage resistance, which amounts to 500hp. which in my and other players opinion, is more than enough. The other advantages, and the reason the tough break version is more fun as well as more effective, are the temporary speed boost and the temporary immunity to afterburn, which together make this watch much better for escapes than the currently used revert. Thanks entirely to the speed boost, this version of the dead ringer isn't just better, its also way more fun and provides more options for a skilled spy to use.

Below is just an example of whats possible, though its a video of the gun-mettle dead ringer, which is identical save for having a lower damage resistance of 50%. if more examples/opinions are needed i can PM to save cluttering up the thread.

I haven't heard anyone say its broken or OP, but in a server with the pre nerf dragons fury, baby faces blaster and custom switch time degreaser it could hardly be called OP.