Map Rotation Megathread

[Scout]

3 things I've been meaning to say for a bit but kept forgetting to:

• If Lazytown's going to be a regular (i.e. non-event) map, it should probably be like the other maps we have and not rely on the Steam Workshop for downloading.
• Sulfur and Burghausen are still in the weekend rotation even though they were supposed to be removed from all rotations.
• I don't think the map cooldown is working. I'm regularly seeing maps that were played the previous day be up for nomination, and we even get the same map get played 2 days in a row every now and then.

[random]

3 things I've been meaning to say for a bit but kept forgetting to:

• If Lazytown's going to be a regular (i.e. non-event) map, it should probably be like the other maps we have and not rely on the Steam Workshop for downloading.
• Sulfur and Burghausen are still in the weekend rotation even though they were supposed to be removed from all rotations.
• I don't think the map cooldown is working. I'm regularly seeing maps that were played the previous day be up for nomination, and we even get the same map get played 2 days in a row every now and then.

Sulfur and Burghausen removed, guess I forgot about that.

For map cooldown, I finally found the bug which was causing it to not actually persist maps after server restarts. I have a fix that might work or might not, I'll see over the next day or two

[Suspicious Carl]

we still gotta drop those new special delivery and robot destruction maps in

[random]

we still gotta drop those new special delivery and robot destruction maps in

I'll try to get to adding new maps before this weekend hits

[Suspicious Carl]

we still gotta drop those new special delivery and robot destruction maps in

I'll try to get to adding new maps before this weekend hits

hell ya, heres the ones i remember
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 3696631536
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 2941994647
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 3698548391
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 3717448206
those are all the SD and RD maps, at the very least i wanna see all those but while im here ill drop a fuckton of normal maps i wanna try, idc if these ones get added as much
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 3729426064
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 3717118396
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 3719791801
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 3719980540
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 3713890115
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 3713887895
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 3694167814
https://gamebanana.com/mods/71146
https://gamebanana.com/mods/70923
also worth noting, you said before you were disappointed by the fact that only 3 maps would get removed in the poll but i gotta be real there are alot more maps that you could outright remove at this point, ctf_system for example absolutely butchers the server everytime

[random]

I am adding the following maps to the weekend rotation

• arena_goldtooth_rc4

• cp_desertfortress

• cp_follower

• cp_frequency_b2

• cp_rafters_b4

• ctf_battle_creek_2023_b1

• ctf_quarry_v2

• ctf_vault_rc19a

• ctf_wiretap_b3

• koth_swerve_b2a

• pl_blackmoose_b11

• rd_spigot

• rd_uplink_c3

• sd_offload_b3

• sd_eschaton

They are all available to download here if you want to try them out.

In addition, I've put in Scout's fixes for rd_radiant and koth_bitterroot, and swapped all of the _fix variant maps that were for linux texture issues back to their originals, as Valve fixed this bug.

You will be able to try these out in the server this weekend. I'd recommend you try the full 45 minutes for each to be able to learn the map, as a few of them (in particular blackmoose and vault, then spigot, uplink, offload, and eschaton for the specialty gamemodes) have layouts you will need to learn

The maps that I would look out for are the rd and sd maps, since other than eschaton they function a bit different from their base modes, as well as goldtooth, quarry, vault, and swerve. I don't know how the maps would play, I just did a quick runthrough of each of them

[Gabber]

This is an extreme amount of maps, personally i'm not excited about the weekend turning into a beta testing session for maps of dubious quality.

[random]

This is an extreme amount of maps, personally i'm not excited about the weekend turning into a beta testing session for maps of dubious quality.

One thing to note is that this probably the last batch of maps I'm going to add and we're only removing from this point on. I actually had an idea regarding culling maps which involved forcing people to pick their favorites per gamemode and the 2-3 with the least votes get removed - that we can do at some point in the next week or two. I had asked prior to this add if anyone had anymore missing iconic maps and nobody could seem to bring up anything so I don't think we're ever going to have any more "oh man you gotta add this map!" situations going forward

[Suspicious Carl]

This is an extreme amount of maps, personally i'm not excited about the weekend turning into a beta testing session for maps of dubious quality.

One thing to note is that this probably the last batch of maps I'm going to add and we're only removing from this point on. I actually had an idea regarding culling maps which involved forcing people to pick their favorites per gamemode and the 2-3 with the least votes get removed - that we can do at some point in the next week or two. I had asked prior to this add if anyone had anymore missing iconic maps and nobody could seem to bring up anything so I don't think we're ever going to have any more "oh man you gotta add this map!" situations going forward

can more new maps be considered for the future if we remove a satisfying amount of bad maps? like if we cull a bunch of the lame maps we have right now will we be allowed to have new batches come in, cus tf2 has an infinite amount of maps there is potentially dozens to hundreds of untapped maps

[random]

can more new maps be considered for the future if we remove a satisfying amount of bad maps? like if we cull a bunch of the lame maps we have right now will we be allowed to have new batches come in, cus tf2 has an infinite amount of maps there is potentially dozens to hundreds of untapped maps

On a case by case basis I'd say but I'd only like to put interest into maps that are vetted beforehand. Beta testing stuff repeatedly just takes time which annoys me along with setting up map votes, it'd be easier to get to a stable rotation where we don't need to add or remove anything

[loodie]

spigot is god tier

[Scout]

First impressions on the maps I played, from notes made during EU and NA:
desertfortress - ok
swerve - really good
quarry - decent, minecarts are the main issue with how frustrating dying to them can be, but you can learn how they work and use that to your advantage
spigot - very good, better asteroid alternative than radiant
follower - decent, if too similar to badlands/granary
eschaton - plays decent, not optimized that well
uplink - much worse than asteroid
rafters - decent
blackmoose - alright, too long, 3rd point is funny
frequency - good, reminds me of mojave
goldtooth - good, also anyone else interested in a koth version? i can do it
wiretap - meh
offload - from what i played on a low pop server doesn't seem good. i could possibly fix the blocking bug but even then it's not a good map

[mjaded]

happy independence day, during the session i played goldtooth, eschaton, swerve, spigot, uplink, and follower.

one of my all time favorite maps is arena_watchtower, and seeing cp_follower in that alpine style was great. i don't mind that it's a frankenstein mesh of granary and badlands, if the idea works it works.
spigot was interesting. i stayed in the outdoor area most the time, and attempted using my asteroid strategy of constantly trying to cap using the BFB. the cores are really close together and open-air, and there's no real guards like lasers or a one way door. need to play this one again, try some new strategies.
goldtooth is solid. i was pretty checked out of the game by that point so i wasn't playing well at all, but it is a good map.
eschaton's a good take on SD. i found a cool sniper spot on top of a small roof, you gotta slide up a steep ramp for like 15 seconds to be able to jump to it.
swerve looks amazing, gabber was kinda right about sniper being hard to play on that map but i did fine enough swapping between the window spot and a different spot that gives you a sightline on the flank path.

uplink is ass and needs to be taken out back. might have potential if converted into a 3CP or CTF map.

[random]

First impressions which I'll refine over the next few weeks

• Goldtooth - Pretty good, I enjoyed having the verticality with the roof. Without the roof I'd have thought it was a lot more mediocre

• Desertfortress - Didn't get to try

• Follower - It's definitely a little derivative. I would say the biggest pain point to me seems to be needing another entrance to mid from the courtyard area in front of second, there's a lack of a route on the right that doesn't require going up the stairs. Layout wise, it's basically granary last, granary second, badlands mid. Which isn't a problem really, just an observation.

• Frequency - I didn't really get any balanced matches on this so it's hard to say. Last might be a little hard to push if teams are balanced, as even after getting completely rolled on first and second you can hold third for a surprising amount of time. I think first and second are maybe too close so if you lose first and your team didn't preemptively run back to second, you just instantly lose it too

• Rafters - Didn't get to try

• Battle Creek - Didn't get to try

• Quarry - Didn't get to try

• Vault - Didn't get to try

• Wiretap - Extremely mediocre ctf map. Defending and attacking is really basic, not much layout intrigue. It's not the worst map I've ever played but it isn't that good

• Swerve - It might have just been a single bad experience but I didn't have fun on any of the rounds I played. Layout wise the center point reminds me strongly of that church halloween koth map. Lots of corners to get rolled around, the only area to really hold is mid itself which makes pushing mid hard if the enemy team controls it because you don't really get a staging area

• Blackmoose - I'm conflicted, I did like the map somewhat and I think the elevator section is a ton of fun if you have balanced teams. I think my main complaint is that last is really hard to hold, they gave some questionable flanks to blue which makes maintaining a sentry anywhere nearly impossible and you just get gunned down from afar. The rest of the map is fine, the entire starting area seems like a trap to me to attempt to hold and you're better off holding in the tunnel but might just be single experience bias

• Spigot - I liked this one a lot, it's a much more action packed fast paced version of robot destruction. In Asteroid, the gameplay loop involves usually trading bots back and forth for a while before anyone even attempts to steal, and stealing is a really big event where you're incentivized to get out with as much as you can carry. On the other hand, Spigot has the core so close that it's more about doing multiple small steals to reset enemy progress. The layout ensures there's always something happening, I never felt like I was in an area of the map alone waiting for someone to come to me, I was sure to encounter someone every few seconds. I think if Asteroid is the ctf of robot destruction maps, then Spigot would be the koth of robot destruction maps

• Uplink - Rather boring robot destruction map. To compare it to the Asteroid game loop, there you usually will be killing bots left and right for a while before doing any deep base invasions, and when you do there's a lot of interesting flank routes you can take for infiltrating. In contrast with this map, everything funnels through one choke at the A bots which makes defending trivial, and the distance between the A bots of both teams means most of the combat is happening at mid far away from any robots, so you just sit there without anyone killing bots. If any team has a sentry stealing is basically impossible unless you full push them to their spawn at which point it's essentially game over anyways. Asteroid does this well by having mid not be very big, you can't really have two teams sitting there for long without one getting pushed back, which means the robots are pretty much always under siege so the objective will tick away as people play. But in this map you just kind of fight at mid and ignore the robots. Not a fan of this map, it could easily be something like powerhouse and be 3cp which lends to it being a poor rd layout

• Offload - I didn't think this map was that bad. Aside from the janky train it has a simple layout (once you play it for a few rounds you get the idea) and a neat way of doing the SD mechanic that allows teams to defend more easily instead of needing to take control of the entire mid area. I'd like to see this get a few more chances on a full server

• Eschaton - Didn't get to try

As far as aesthetics go, definitely my favorite has to be Spigot followed by Frequency, both of these maps look great

[Gabber]

The new maps were better than expected. Rafters and Goldtooth (yes @scout make a koth version) should definitely stay, uplink needs to get scrapped. The other ones i played i need more time with to make a definitive judgement but there was nothing so bad to where i'd want to rage quit, granted i only played about half of the recent dump.

[Suspicious Carl]

dropping thoughts that i will edit here along the way

swerve- GOD TIER
goldtooth- GOD TIER (make a koth version)
wiretap- really good, i am a huge fan of compact cozy old maps like wiretap and quarry etc. castaway seems to be very 50/50 on them but if you hand me a tiny ass ctf map from 17 years ago im probably gonna love it
offload- N1GG3RHELL TIER, remove!!!

[Gabber]

This is an extreme amount of maps, personally i'm not excited about the weekend turning into a beta testing session for maps of dubious quality.

One thing to note is that this probably the last batch of maps I'm going to add and we're only removing from this point on. I actually had an idea regarding culling maps which involved forcing people to pick their favorites per gamemode and the 2-3 with the least votes get removed - that we can do at some point in the next week or two. I had asked prior to this add if anyone had anymore missing iconic maps and nobody could seem to bring up anything so I don't think we're ever going to have any more "oh man you gotta add this map!" situations going forward

I don't think we should do either of these.
When it comes to more custom maps being added, there's no reason why we should lock ourselves out of adding new ones, my only problem with the recent dump was the sheer quantity, i think drip-feeding a couple maps in a week makes more sense, so we can test and focus on a small number, but this dump turned out to be fairly good and everyone seemed to enjoy themselves mostly so it all worked out anyway.

When it comes to removing maps i really don't see the point, we should remove maps that are of low quality and/or kill sessions (haarp, degrootkeep). Removing maps just because they're not played as often, and giving ourselves an arbitrary removal quota from every gamemode is pointless and stupid. A map can be unpopular, but still playable, and getting to play it once in a while is better than removing the option completely for no reason.
The only real argument for this type of map removal would be nomination terrorism clogging up every vote with garbage, but i've seen this happen very rarely.

[SomethingSomethingSomething]

Spigot and Goldtooth are 100% keeps for me.
Spigot feels good to play for every class because it has plenty of flanks, open enough to snipe or rocket jump, plenty of health packs, closed in enough for Pyros (along with the cliff to airblast people off), and is focused enough to allow team fights.
Goldtooth is a little big for arena but other wise I think its fantastic.
Eschaton is pretty good in my opinion
Rafters is strange to play, seemed difficult to defend imo

[random]

• Desertfortress - Not really a big fan of this map, feels like it's just build for soldiers, demos, and snipers and other classes don't get that much to do

• Vault - I enjoyed the map. No real complaints. Cool underground base aesthetic with fun flank routes

• Eschaton - Decent, I think getting down to where the intel is takes kind of a while but fighting for the rocket is fun enough. I get low fps at mid on this map for some inexplicable reason

[Scout]

more thoughts:
vault - bizarre but good
battle creek - seems ok, i can probably fix the sound bug
updated desertfortress - i think i agree with random here

[Suspicious Carl]

updated thoughts:

swerve- GOD TIER
goldtooth- GOD TIER (make a koth version)
wiretap- really good, i am a huge fan of compact cozy old maps like wiretap and quarry etc. castaway seems to be very 50/50 on them but if you hand me a tiny ass ctf map from 17 years ago im probably gonna love it
offload- N1GG3RHELL TIER, remove!!!
follower- N1GG3RHELL TIER, remove!!!
desert fortress- DECENT TIER
vault- GOD TIER
eshaton- VERY GOOD TIER, its not perfect but to be fair its hard to beat doomsday, i think its worthy though
battle creek- MADE ME CRY TIER, remove
blackmoose- N1GG3RHELL TIER, remove!!!
uplink- REALLY GOOD TIER, this one kicks ass, but the point values are fucked and the rounds go too fast, someone who knows map maker make it asteroid values so it plays to 300 and bots give out asteroid points

the rest i havent tried yet, they should be on weekday rotation so we can try them all! i still need to try spigot, rafters, frequency, quarry

but yea remove offload, follower, battle creek, blackmoose, and while your at it y dont you do me a favor and toss in pl_launch and koth_reservoir....

[Asmo]

Alright, here's my thoughts so far

• cp_desertfortress
  Remove. Plays like a trade server plaza.

• cp_follower
  Remove. Attempt to combine cp_granary with badlands mid. Boring concept, poorly executed. Only two tiny chokes that lead to mid. Flank routes from granary 2nd removed, no alternative flanks added to replace them.

• ctf_quarry_v2
  It's not terrible, but it's not good either. Minecarts are bullshit. Remove.

• ctf_vault_rc19a
  Beautiful. Many cool out of bound areas. Intricate, but not confusing. Fun to explore. Keep.

• rd_spigot
  Chefs kiss. New and interesting way to play rd. Fast paced with lots of back and fourth gameplay. Keep.

• rd_uplink_c3
  Remove. It's just ctf_barn with robots.

• sd_eschaton
  This one is the most disappointing of all. It's really good, but it's got to be the worst optimized map I've ever played. Requires a minecraft config.

Never got the chance to play any of the others.

[Gabber]

Spigot - GOOD.

Desertfortress - GOD tier we keeping this one its fun as FUCK

Follower - good map. couldn't care less that it takes inspiration from granary, it plays significantly differently, looks good and is fun to play. we dont have enough 5cp maps in this world

Eschaton - meh... not as good as doomsday but not horrible its whatever bro

Blackmoose - stylistically retarded and not TF2 but gameplay wise it flows decently enough

Battlecreek - GAYLO SUCKS FLACCID COCK, but this actually works pretty well for ctf. Genuinely would rather play this over 2fort, well or landfall.

Vault - decent ctf map if you can handle the nightmares

ALSO i did a 180 on uplink it's actually not that bad, probably my 3rd choice for rd but i wouldnt mind keeping it.

[Nota]

Rafters - GAWD tier A/D map, up there as one of my favorites now and I played with 3 annoying women who wouldn’t stfu and they STILL couldn’t make me not have fun on this map, weekdays NOW.
Goldtooth - Haven’t played much but haven’t had a bad time on, would recommend weekend rotation ftb
Desert Fortress - Hear me out… GAWWWD TIER. But keep weekend rotation, good asf but I don’t want to overplay it knowhatimsaying
Swerve - KOTH SWERRRRVE BABY WEEKDAYS NOW!!
Spigot - beautiful as fuck and that counts for something, I don’t like how easy the cores are to steal, it works better on asteroid with its cores being locked away, I’m give or take with this one
Vault - I mean it’s alright, keep in weekends
Offload - Shit map, worse version of both longboy and doomsday, ugly as sin, plays like ass and ends without most teams contesting the cap, REMOVE

No opinion on any other maps yet, maybe later when they’re available to play and I’m notaway, PEACE

[Gabber]

start the poll already